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Forums › The Car › 206 Problems › Checking spark outside of engine on coil on rail coilpack |
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 Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:50 pm |
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Joined: Aug 04, 2011
Posts: 1343
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Swindon
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Compression values are very low - assuming the gauge is accurate - but I have seen cars start and run with numbers this low and it should at least still fire.
These low numbers may show an engine in poor (very poor) condition but it does not show a destroyed cambelt nor the reason for failing to start.
Though I guess it is possible that the cambelt has jumped a tooth or two and that is the problem. Personally, while I have heard people reporting belts jumping a tooth I have never ever witnessed it and doubt that it can happen without destroying an engine.
You have an engine in very poor condition but I think you still have problems elsewhere. I would do a wet test and see what happens to the compression figure. if there isn't any change then you have valve or head gasket problems and if it improves it is probably time to scrap the car!
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| Morris 1000, Austin 1100, Escort Mk2, Fiat Mirafiori, Alfa 33, Alfa GT Junior, Alfasud, Alfetta GTV (2x), Alfa 164 3.0 V6, Alfa 164 2.0, Alfa 75 V6, Alfa 156 2.4 (diesel remapped 200bhp), Alfa 147 GTA (3.6 295bhp), Alfa 159 (diesel remapped 245bhp 300ft.lbs @ 2500rpm)
Why isn't my daughter an Alfaholic? | |
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Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:07 pm |
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Joined: Oct 15, 2013
Posts: 17
Trade Rating: 0
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Noted: I will do a wet test tomorrow.
As for the spark, any idea on why the injectors, ecg and coilpack connectors are getting such low voltage?
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Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:55 pm |
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Joined: Aug 04, 2011
Posts: 1343
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Swindon
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I would not trust an inexperienced user of a multimeter. I am trained in electronics and you would be amazed at just what spurious readings you can get and false ideas from using a meter.
I don't know enough about how the electronics should work to know what is wrong. it could be that the voltage only goes high when the engine is actually cranking or firing. It could be that the belt has jumped a tooth or two (though I have already stated my opinion on this) and that the management system has spotted that the cam and crank sensor are no longer working in time together and refusing to allow the car to start by cutting the voltage.
The only way to know if the readings are right or wrong is a side by side test with a known working car. Bear in mind that setting the meter wrong for a reading could then trash the working car!!!
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| Morris 1000, Austin 1100, Escort Mk2, Fiat Mirafiori, Alfa 33, Alfa GT Junior, Alfasud, Alfetta GTV (2x), Alfa 164 3.0 V6, Alfa 164 2.0, Alfa 75 V6, Alfa 156 2.4 (diesel remapped 200bhp), Alfa 147 GTA (3.6 295bhp), Alfa 159 (diesel remapped 245bhp 300ft.lbs @ 2500rpm)
Why isn't my daughter an Alfaholic? | |
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Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:39 pm |
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Joined: Oct 15, 2013
Posts: 17
Trade Rating: 0
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I set the Multimeter to the 20v range as the electrics are based off of the 12v battery, I googled extensively and have a pretty good idea of how to use multimeters now, enough for reading voltages, resistance and continuity for this purpose, but by no means an expert. I haven't tested load/amps but I don't need to for these basic diagnostic tests.
I will try the voltage test while cranking the car, and see if it pulses.
If the timing went on the car by a tooth, lets say it slipped while driving up the hill, wouldn't the engine be toast anyway because it's an interference engine and would explain the low compression numbers.
The battery is outputting 12v as tested at the battery and the throttle body and a few others places. Everything connected to the wiring harness that is soaked in oil, (the injectors, the coilpack, the egr) have low values. Yes these are ignition based and could be caused by either the ECU, the immobilser, or faulty relays, cables in the circuit or faulty ground, or even faulty fuse box. Or it could indeed be correct voltages until cranked. These are reasons I am seeking advise from the Peugeot community as they are quite specific to the make and model of car. I had read that there is a class action lawsuit concerning the ECUs and other circuitry of the ignition cutting out and blowing stuff on 206's, so there is reason to believe this could be a weak point of the car.
Regardless of the compression (I will borrow another verified working compression tester later), for the mean time I think it's worthwhile pursuing the low voltage reasons and if they are correct (unlikely based on other cars) or incorrect (likely as the coilpack isn't firing, the relays don't seem to be clicking and the injectors don't appear to be firing, and the EML fault codes were missfire based).
Up till now the eletrical reading need to be investigated, which I am seeking help coordinating my effors. I have the 5 pin relay switches from the engine fuse box out of the car and will get some aligator clips to connect to the battery to test them. I am planning to connect jump leads to the battery while it's still in the car, and connect an aligator clip from the end of the jump leads to the eletrical connectors on the relays and test if they switch, if there is anything wrong with this method or some safety problems or a better way to do it please advise me.
If the relays are working (the fuses have been checked) then I guess the next thing to test would be the ECU, and wires in that circuit, or perhaps the ground (which is probably caked in oil as it looks to be underneath the harness in question connected to the engine or chassis. Obviously, I will need guidance on this as quite frankly im a not a mechanic.
Or, conversely, if you feel another route to take in investigating the voltage issues would be better, then please advise. But obviously I cannot get another Peugeot 206 GTi or any other similar car to compare to, and also, I cannot move the car.
First things first, crank car and test for ignition voltage pulses from the coilpack connector to the coilpack, and then test relays using above method. I suspect the relays are fine and the coilpack is not receiving voltage, then I guess it's a case of the next thing along the circuit, whether that be egr (if it controls current to the coilpack), or the wires themselves or any relays on those wires to the fuse box or ECU?
Lots of questions and thoughts and I do appreciate your help. I don't want to scrap this little Peugeot :(.
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Last edited by tekzwob on Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:41 pm |
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Joined: Oct 15, 2013
Posts: 17
Trade Rating: 0
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Just though I'd add that there are ways to test the crank and cam shaft sensors with a multimeter, I don't actually know where they are on the car or how to test them, this is another thing I want to test which I think should be eliminated to help with the general diagnoses.
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