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 Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:49 am |
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Joined: Nov 04, 2015
Posts: 8
Trade Rating: 0
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I have asked on other forums but no one can help me so will copy and paste the things I have tried to this thread in hopes someone will have had this problem or can help me with it.
My mother has a 206cc 2005 and it has a strange problem which I think is down to the BSI CL relay.
The car will lock on the key and the lights flash and the buttons go down.
When trying to unlock nothing no click but lights flash button does not pop up.
The strange thing is though if its locked when your in the car and pull the button up and pull the open lever it will not open you have to open the window and use the key on the out side of the car, which is a very bad for safety if you need to get out in a rush.
I think the relay in the BSI has gone, I checked the wires with multimeter to see which gets a signal but the purple and the green/yellow wires do not seem to get much more than 10 - 15 Mv when the open button is pressed.
I am guessing these or one of these are the open signal for the lock.
I put my hand on the BSI wiring that goes in to it and you can feel the click for the relay on close but nothing on open.
So my question is has anyone replaced the relay for the CL in one of these BSI units before ?
I am good with replacing relays and soldering SMD electronics on boards that's no problem, it's more the taking out the BSI and making sure its not going to destroy itself from the other threads about disconnecting the battery.
Any info or input would be great, I cannot say if its the relay till I get it out an test it, it might be another part of the BSI that burnt or corroded stopping the relay working but will see once I get the BSI out.
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Thanks will check the wires I did check the wires on the drivers side but not passenger.
but both get no close 2 - 3.5 volt signal on the wires both sides on the purple and green and yellow .
has 4v on the green.
It clearly gets a 2 - 3.5v signal to close on the pink and blue, with the white having 4v.
Yes I press the fob button once I am not sure if it has deadlocks on the car I do not press it twice I can see & hear it's locked why try and lock it again.
If the button inside is pressed the doors will not open with the handle on inside.
It's a real pain that the BSI is so fragile in these car's pugs are renowned for there bad electrical systems.
I press once to close once to open as the indicators flash to tell me this.
but Its strange both sides have no signal and there is no click from the relay to open with out the click meaning its not closing the loop to give a signal it will never open, that's why I say its the BSI board or relay on it.
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I have had another look and put it back together the doors now open when inside so that part is ok, now do not know why they open now and not before as I did not take any of the mechanism apart just the wires off.
The wires are all ok have continuity and 0.3 - 0.5 ohms.
Still the problem with the relay from the key I did notice that the relay clicks if I sit in the car and press the dash lock unlock but not from the key fob.
But even with the dash button the relay does not send voltage signal to the door lock.
When resetting the BSI do you have to set the keys up again ?
Tried pressing the lock button twice does not do anything.
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Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:14 pm |
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Joined: Jun 20, 2012
Posts: 1171
Trade Rating: +1
Location: West Country
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Your mum's car is clearly multiplexed, so deadlock kicks in immediately - that's why you can't get out from inside the car if you lock it with fob.
Pre-multiplexed cars have two buttons on the fob - one to lock/unlock, the other to deadlock after locking.
Your one has one button to unlock, one to lock.
Simple question: lock the car with fob, then put key into driver's lock keyhole and turn it -- does CL trigger and unlock everything? I presume not from reading your description, but confirm this just to be clear.
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Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:35 am |
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Joined: Nov 04, 2015
Posts: 8
Trade Rating: 0
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Yes you are correct nothing happens if you unlock manually but that door, so the central locking is not working with the key either side.
Just had a quick read on multiplex systems but do not understand why there are so many wires for the lock if this is the case it should only need three wires at most if it where to cut down the amount of wires in a car yet it has 6, I guess it need constant live then signal to lock and then signal to deadlock, then 3 for unlock as well.
So does not cut down the wires at all but I could do with the workshop manual on that page wiring schematics would help as I cannot find one online for this specific job.
I need to know if the signal should be the same on the G/Y and Purple wires back to unlock 99% sure that it should be 2 - 3.5v for a second to open the doors as well.
This is a very strange problem as the car maybe old but its done every little millage electronics have a short lifespan so its more down to the components used at the time if they are a good grade or a cheap part that breaks easily and relays can go wrong easily.
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Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:58 am |
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Joined: Jun 20, 2012
Posts: 1171
Trade Rating: +1
Location: West Country
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For multiplexed wiring diagrams: clicky
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Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:55 am |
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Joined: Nov 04, 2015
Posts: 8
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Thanks for the schematics its half solved my way of thinking.
Now I know the green/y & purple is used for seems to be the relay energizing connection.
So should need very small amount of voltage to trigger the relay.
But have no voltage values on those schematics, which makes it a little bit of a pain to know what should flow when the relays are energised they should be 1v at least I would have thought to make the relay be pulled to the other contact.
Maybe I am not correct in that thinking as its hard to know what goes to what in the 40Ba connector.
4 wires in and 2 wires out.
So do I have 2 faulty door motors or do I have a relay problem, strange to think 2 door motors go at the very same time like one in a hundred billion chance of that happening.
Will check the voltages again on opening but if I remember no voltage when key fob press to open on any wire.
So has confused me now as the same relays are used to open and close the doors, so the relays must be working and all wiring is working.
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Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:30 am |
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Joined: Nov 04, 2015
Posts: 8
Trade Rating: 0
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I have gone back and checked the voltage on open on the pink and blue and there is no voltage to open the locks from the relay so looks more like BSI not giving relay signal to power the motors will do a reboot I think to try and see if it helps.
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Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:48 am |
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Joined: Jun 20, 2012
Posts: 1171
Trade Rating: +1
Location: West Country
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Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:18 am |
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Joined: Nov 04, 2015
Posts: 8
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onYes just done it no different still wont open.
Could not check the lock itself as I think my power supply does not have enough amps to move the lock as its only a 1A supply & the fuse is 30A.
Might go and buy two locks for the sake of it from scrappy but wont know if they work either but this is the cheaper option which I am pretty sure wont fix the problem.
Then if nothing works will have to pull the BSI and check it I guess.
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Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:20 am |
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Joined: Jun 20, 2012
Posts: 1171
Trade Rating: +1
Location: West Country
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Wire up from battery? (use at own risk!)
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Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:30 am |
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Joined: Nov 04, 2015
Posts: 8
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Thanks
Why did I not think of that usually do, will have another go tomorrow as they are a pain to get out first time can put 30A fuse inline.
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Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:11 am |
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Joined: Nov 04, 2015
Posts: 8
Trade Rating: 0
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I have managed to get the drivers door opening on central locking by disconnecting the two green wires, which I guess is the dead locking side of the lock.
It is a strange one as I done the same for the passenger side and it will not unlock, but button pops up now before it did not.
but can open the doors from the inside now which was the main problem.
But now have to press lock twice on the key fob to lock the doors, once for the alarm and once for the locks.
Who knows what the real problem is with the CL'ing she is getting a new car in a while so will do now till she gets a new car not a Renault, Pug or any other French car will be steering her away from them now, even though I was told Nissan are doing the electrics now.
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:33 am |
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Joined: Jan 30, 2016
Posts: 22
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Plymouth
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For your information. The drivers door has all those ires because it is the control for the C/L. It tells the other locks when to Lock/Unlock. If the C/L does not work on the key I would suspect a broken wire. If the C/L does work on the key I would look at replacing just the Drivers door Lock/Unlock Unit
Andy C
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:43 am |
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Joined: Nov 04, 2015
Posts: 8
Trade Rating: 0
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I have already got another set of locks if you read the thread and the same thing happened, the only thing that worked was removing the contacts from the deadlocking.
It does not dead lock now and the locks work fine up and down now.
So probably a problem with the deadlocking on the BSI.
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