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1.6 16V, not starting after engine change.
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Projectsport

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:12 am

Joined: Apr 12, 2018
Posts: 24
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Kent

So some of you may be aware that I’m swapping my 1.4 16V to a 1.6 16V.
So far this has been a two month project which could be finally coming to an end.

We had the new engine in within 2 days, some slight faffing as we needed to swap the lower engine mount, gearbox, etc.
We then had to change the bsi wiring, which goes to the ecu, fuse box, all the way back to the fuel pump and rear axle for the abs.
Plugged everything in and the car wouldn’t start.
Tracing hundreds of wires with no difference, changed the interior loom, tried a second ecu, car still didn’t start.

I trailed through hundreds of threads, forums, posts, all seamed to be a similar problem, 1.6 16V, engine changed, wouldn’t start. Turns out I was finding this is a really common issue with the 1.6. Acting like an immobiliser issue, however not an immobiliser issue.
A few threads found results, most didn’t. The few results I found were either fitting a stand alone ecu and building a new loom, or completely starting over. Most people seamed to scrap in the end and never got it running. Frankly isn’t an option for me, I’m determined.
Being female doing an engine swap I also seam to be getting a lot of comments and slating around it, which is actually making me more determined to get this car running whatever it takes.

what i noticed as trigger factors to cause the fault, was wiring. trigger things, changing anything at all that relates to the immobiliser, (barrels or immob ring), changing sensors, changing loom, even like for like. solution being, donor car, transplant everything electrical into the car. this seams to be a common issue with the 1.6 16V, the wiring seams to be very delicate, along with the ECU. having spoke to a few mappers regarding getting the car mapped, none wanted to touch it due to the ecu not being able to cope very well with change, it appears the ECU immobilises itself permanently under stress.

I have found a donor car, unfortunately a CC and the wiring is very different, but it can be worked with, and I intend to make it work.
The wiring that needs to be edited:
- fog light (wiring too short. Extend wires)
- rear lights (fit, but wiring is very short and tight fit)
- high level brake light (wiring too short, not in right place)
-rear doors, (no wiring to rear doors, splice/patch into front doors)
- central locking (wiring simply not there, patch from rear doors)

But this can all be sorted, have added how incase anyone else has the same issues.
What I intend to do is to move over all of the wiring and electrical components, ecu bsi key, fuse box, comms, clocks, console clock, the entire loom including front doors, also the cc has the JBL system so that will also get installed, will look into swapping it to the hatch sub at a later date.
I will post updates once fitted!

took longer than expected due to ill family.
the wiring has been swapped and the car runs, just adjusting the last few things to get her through an MOT.

she fires but i have picked up on the CC windows are very different to hatch windows, CC windows are wired through the roof ecu. even plugging the ecu in can’t cure it. not yet found a solution!

Last edited by Projectsport on Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

Steve206

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:43 pm

Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Posts: 2720
Trade Rating: +6
Location: UK

Have you scanned it with pp2000? I would make sure your getting communitcation with the car and it might point you in the direction of whats wrong.


	Work in Progress

VorTechS

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:21 am

Joined: Feb 08, 2010
Posts: 2369
Trade Rating: +15
Location: Gloucestershire, UK

As well as what Steve suggests above, is there anything that DOES work since you moved things over?

Any basic electrical functions (interior lights coming on when door opens etc)?

Any other electrical functions (electric windows working, stereo coming on, wipers working)?

Does the 'key in ignition' test work (opening door with key in ignition, meaning BSI recognises the key)

(I tried to ask the latter when you originally posted on FaceCrap, not that I can help much because this is way above my paygrade, but it might help others help you if they know what does work)

Timon2210

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:56 pm

Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Posts: 4266
Trade Rating: +4
Location: Palestine

Well if you want this car to work,you need to have a plan,first thing to do is that you need to replace the engine loom from the donor car,get the ECU from the donor car,and also the BSI from donor car,must manual to manual,or automatic to automatic other wise it will not start,also should have ABS on both cars,if yours is not with ABS/ESP then it will not work.

when you plug the new ECU and BSI,and get the key from the donor car,you can switch the ignition on and see the faults,maybe there is no sync. in the timing,too much variables make the car crank with no start.

get a scan,and I can help you if you like to make it work,the inside loom is not important btw.


	My 206 Project-Pride & Joy

Projectsport

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:20 pm

Joined: Apr 12, 2018
Posts: 24
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Kent

she runs i will update the post now to explain. i probably didnt explain, i stripped every bit of wire out of the donor, the car was acting immobilised, basic functions worked but she didnt fire. however, she runs now, i have some theories on this over a lot of info ive picked up in the last 2 months.

Projectsport

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:20 pm

Joined: Apr 12, 2018
Posts: 24
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Kent

and yes the bsi recognised the key.

Projectsport

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:35 pm

Joined: Apr 12, 2018
Posts: 24
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Kent

VorTechS wrote:

appologies, due to comments on FaceCrap i stopped posting on there and resorted back to this forum. was getting abuse every single day.
windows didnt work due to CC wiring, stereo did, wipers did, lights did, just wouldnt fire!
key in ignition test helped a lot, however i even got crap for that saying it was unreliable! however, with the right key, it beeped, wrong key, didnt. so proof enough for me!

the ecu seams to be the root cause, being very delicate and sensetive to any electrical changes. mappers seam to be very hesistant to touch it unless its simply uploading a pre-made and tested map. at best they will smooth out the flat spots and thats it!

ekjdm14

Posted: Mon May 25, 2020 2:12 pm

Joined: Jan 06, 2020
Posts: 176
Trade Rating: 0
Location: Cheshire

FB is worthless except for the marketplace, and even then I make the son or the missus look on there lol! Not bothered with FB itself, much less the groups for years. The lad is on some of the groups but they seem to still be full of the usual knobjocks with nothing constructive or positive to say.

Bleep test is reliable in that if the car recognises the key it'll always bleep at you, never known the bleeper to fail on any of our 206s. Anyway over a year later, hope the car's going well. Don't listen to the haters, they're just jealous because they couldn't hope to do what we do.


	'02 1.4HDi Mercury Grey 102k (waiting for it's time to shine once more) '03 GTi 180 Aegean Blue 92k (suffering gearbox/diff issues) '53 Obsidian Black XUD9TE/veg fuelled b-road toy (in surgery for MoT workarounds) '56 SW 1.4i Verve Aegean Blue 70k (new £50 project with roasted lump) +'95 Citroen Xantia 1.9D auto (on loan to inlaws) +'99 306 2.0SE cabriolet +'97 306 1.9LXDT French Car Forums

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